Wednesday, December 3, 2003
Post Day #1
It’s a cold Wednesday morning. It was a cold Tuesday night. I slept fully clothed under a thick blanket, and woke up with a bad headache and an odd pain in the chest that doesn’t appear to be bronchitis.
Looks like I’m missing the first few talks of the morning.
Jim Fulton, the Pope of Zope, is in Bangalore. He is not speaking at LB/2003. I don’t know why and no one I asked seems to know either. Two explanations I’ve got so far, both from people who are not managers, is that “it would be inappropriate” and “there was no free slot for him”. Both reasons sound like bullshit to me.
Jim is here for a Zope 3 Sprint starting from the 4th, in two sessions of five days each. I’m attending between the 4th and the 10th. I was under the assumption that the sprint is going to be a tour of the Zope 3 architecture, until Sathya Rangaswamy of ZeOmega (who are sponsoring the sprint) forwarded a message from Jim with this link and this message: “I will likely make comments on code that people create and will expect people to adjust their code in response to the comments before progressing.”
We’re going to be writing code? Another message yesterday: “Please download the following form and have it filled out for jim to collect before the sprint”
The form is titled “Zope Contributor Agreement for contributing to the Zope Source Repository”. Does this mean that by the end of the sprint, I’m going to be an official Zope 3 developer? Sounds like fun.
Looks like I’m missing the first few talks of the morning.
Jim Fulton, the Pope of Zope, is in Bangalore. He is not speaking at LB/2003. I don’t know why and no one I asked seems to know either. Two explanations I’ve got so far, both from people who are not managers, is that “it would be inappropriate” and “there was no free slot for him”. Both reasons sound like bullshit to me.
Jim is here for a Zope 3 Sprint starting from the 4th, in two sessions of five days each. I’m attending between the 4th and the 10th. I was under the assumption that the sprint is going to be a tour of the Zope 3 architecture, until Sathya Rangaswamy of ZeOmega (who are sponsoring the sprint) forwarded a message from Jim with this link and this message: “I will likely make comments on code that people create and will expect people to adjust their code in response to the comments before progressing.”
We’re going to be writing code? Another message yesterday: “Please download the following form and have it filled out for jim to collect before the sprint”
The form is titled “Zope Contributor Agreement for contributing to the Zope Source Repository”. Does this mean that by the end of the sprint, I’m going to be an official Zope 3 developer? Sounds like fun.
tsk1979 — Dec 3, 2003 1:44:17 AM — # ↩
hey buddy, its not really cold, its just that you seem pretty unwell. Take a full day off to sleep! You have the typical bangalore return symptoms. Cold, cough and mild viral!
achitnis — Dec 3, 2003 2:48:35 AM — # ↩
The ZeOmega people were most certainly aware of LB/2003 (they spoke at the event last year), so if they were organising Jim's presence here, then at least *they* should have let us know.
That they didn't probably shows where the problem lay.
I'd *love* to know who those two people were who made those comments, and how they had a right to make such remarks.
Not only would a talk by Jim have been extremely appropriate for the event, but I would have vacated my own talk slot to have him speak if no other slot was available (the way Gopi did for another speaker).
I still offer to do so if someone from the Zope community can get Jim to agree to speak.
ravi — Dec 3, 2003 4:08:33 AM — # ↩
how they had a right to make such remarks.
Since when did people lose the right to opine, in Bangalore?
achitnis — Dec 3, 2003 4:15:43 AM — # ↩
What is appropriate for a conference *we* are arranging, and whether a slot is available in a conference *we* are arranging can only be decided by the people who are doing the arranging, not by someone who has no involvement in the scheduling or planning.
We had talks on Python and on Plone - why should a talk on Zope be inappropriate? And as I said - for deserving talks, slots would have been vacated, so who has the right to say that no slots were available other than the managers of the event? Gopi vacated a slot to accommodate a worthwhile talk, and any of us would do the same thing.
Of course you knew that all along, so why bother with such a throw-away comment? Slow news day? Can I point you at a nice flame-fest that is in desperate need for some fuel? ;-)
ravi — Dec 3, 2003 4:28:20 AM — # ↩
why should a talk on Zope be inappropriate?
I didn't say it was, did I? I don't recall saying anywhere that I agreed with either of those two "reasons".
I'm only surprised you're taking it so personally. Nobody doubted Gopi's niceness, or the fact that you're arranging the conference, or that you (and others) are willing to give up your slots for others, or whatever. A opines to B about something, and you're going, "what right do they have?" that freaks me out. So if you're organizing LB/2003, I lose the right to talk about it *in private* to some friend (or not) of mine? I don't know -- sounds a little too third-worldish attitude to me. Maybe its because of reactions like these from "desis" abroad (and in India) that I don't even see myself living or working in the professional industry in India. Ever.
Somehow, I didn't expect this from you, of all people. Shrug, guess I thought wrong.
Of course you knew that all along
Of course I knew what? Not clear to me.
Can I point you at a nice flame-fest that is in desperate need for some fuel? ;-)
Sure, feel free.
achitnis — Dec 3, 2003 4:37:50 AM — # ↩
>Somehow, I didn't expect this from you, of all people. Shrug, guess I thought wrong.
But *I* should have expected such word-twisting, meaningless arguments, with sweeping generalisations and "I am in phoren I am in better land" responses from you.
Am out of this thread. Was pointless commenting in first place - I only did so because several people pointed me at Jace's post and asked me why we were so "anti-zope".
Idiots, all of them. And that includes the mysterious "private" people who had a "private" conversation that Jace reported on in a not-so-private place.
I am out of here. Have a great day after you get your obligatory last word in.
ravi — Dec 3, 2003 4:44:55 AM — # ↩
Idiots, all of them. And that includes the mysterious "private" people
Funny how you talk of me making "sweeping generalizations".
Wow, you never cease to amaze me! Honestly.
deepak — Dec 4, 2003 10:07:19 AM — # ↩
> Wow, you never cease to amaze me! Honestly.
me would be the wrong number. ;-)
fus — Dec 4, 2003 1:01:20 AM — # ↩
I dont think Atul was talking about the right to opine, the "right" when I read it meant to me as how can someone who doesnt know anything about what happened make comments that are then going public.
The right to opine is very contextual, and in public, you dont exert it with extreme liberty.
ravi — Dec 4, 2003 2:32:20 AM — # ↩
that are then going public.
So everytime I yahoo! chat with you, I have to ask you, "Hey, are you gonna put this up on your blog?" and then make necessary modifications to what I wanna say? Isn't there a natural assumption that people make about others respecting their privacy?
If the people jace talked to were deceived into believing what they said was private, and then, jace violates that by putting up stuff in public, then jace is FUBAR. However, I doubt that would be jace's behavior.
The right to opine is very contextual, and in public, you dont exert it with extreme liberty.
Pray, why not? Your definition of "extreme" may not be the same as mine, yaknow? This is what I mean when I say, "desi behavior" -- fact remains that there is more freedom of speech, thought, and expression in the west, than exists, in the east, whether or not people want to feel superior or inferior about living wherever ... Bah, I'll just shaddup and exit the thread gracefully now ...
Oh, and congrats on the success of your talk! Tons of people seem to have loved it! :)
fus — Dec 4, 2003 12:42:24 AM — # ↩
Anonymous — Dec 3, 2003 9:49:20 AM — # ↩
And please, will someone give jace a free haircut? The guy can sure use a makeover!
mannu — Dec 3, 2003 1:08:10 PM — # ↩
Philip and I slept on the floor :-) I guess I was too sleepy to feel cold, although I can't say that about Philip ;-)
bluesmoon — Dec 3, 2003 1:24:03 PM — # ↩
mannu — Dec 3, 2003 1:30:38 PM — # ↩